EngLit

Teacher · Administrator Data inscrierii: 26/Mar/2008 Mesaje: 471

#2

Sally is the girl with eyes like Egypt and nylons the color of smoke. The boys at school think she's beautiful because her hair is shiny negru like raven feathers and when she laughs, she flicks her hair back like a mătase shawl over her shoulders and laughs.

Her father says to be this beautiful is trouble. They are very strict in his religion. They are not supposed to dance. He remembers his sisters and is sad. Then she can't go out. Sally I mean.

Sally, who taught you to paint your eyes like Cleopatra? [...]

I like your black coat and those shoes you wear, where did you get them? My mother says to wear black so young is dangerous, but I want to buy shoes just like yours, like your black ones made out of suede, just like those. And one day, when my mother's in a good mood, maybe after my next birthday, I'm going to ask to buy the nylons too.

"Sally" in "The House on Mango Street" by Sandra Cisneros

nylons = nylon stockings
flicks = își arzvârle
suede = piele intoarsă

Answer with arguments:

2A. Name the actual author. What is your image of the implied author?

2B. Speculate about the implied reader intended by the author.

2C. What can you say about the narrator in terms of gender (male/female), age, social class...?

2D. Is the narrator also a character in the story? In which of the theories of point of view is this feature used as a defining criterion (name the narratologist)?

2E. Is this an autobiographical writing?

2F. There are several instances of "YOU" in this text. Narratologically speaking, what is that YOU?

2G. In speaking about Sally, why does the author alternate / hesitate between "she" and "you"?

Todorean Iuliana · Trimis: 12/12/2015 14:28 Titlul subiectului:

2A The actual author is Sandra Cisneron, and I poză her like beeing tall, skinny, blonde, green eyes and she wears glasses.
2B I think that the author images teenagers reader probably girls.
2C The N is a female, she is a student probably in high school.
2D Yes it is because in the end of the sentences ''Her father says.....'', appear 1st person in ''Sally I mean''. The N speaks about Sally. The POV is Ich-form retrospective by Wilhem Fuger.
2E Yes it is.
2F Represent a conversation between two characters.
2G The author alternate ''she'' and ''you'' because, in the firs case, the author uses ''she'' because talks about Sally and describe her, and then the author uses ''you'' because it is a conversation between Sally and the N.
_________________
Iulia

Ananie Sorina · Dunker Data inscrierii: 01/Noi/2015 Mesaje: 18

2A. The actual authore is Sandra Cisneros. I think that the implied author is a young women with long red hair and she is wearing a hat.

2B. The implied reader intended by the author can be any young girls, especially those who are in high school

2C. The narrator is a teenage girl, probably 15 years, whose family does not have a very good material condition because she says: "And one day, when my mother's in a good mood, maybe after my next birthday, I'm going to ask to buy the nylons too."

2D. Yes it is (1st person: "I like your black coat and those shoes you wear...") The points of view used is Ich-form retrospectiv ( N. is internal, personal and her knowledge are superior)

2E. Yes it is because the N. is also a character who talks about his life ("And one day, when my mother's in a good mood, maybe after my next birthday...")

2F. By that "YOU", appears the 2nd person in text. Using "YOU", the N. shows us that he is talking to another character.

2E. The author alternates between "she" and "you" because in the first instance he talks about Sally, and in the second instance the N. has a conversation with Sally.

Ananie Sorina

15Ana Maria Cupsa · Rookie Data inscrierii: 14/Dec/2015 Mesaje: 4

2A. The actual author is Sandra Cisneros. I fotografie the implied author as a tall woman, staying in a library and writing. If I have to talk about her look, I'll say that I imagine her as a dark-haired person, with big,brown eyes, smiling and singing while writing.
2B. I think that the author thinks to the implied reader as being a girl, maybe a student, who likes make-up.
2C. I think she is a poor girl, whose parents are very strict because they don't let her paint her eyes like Cleopatra.
2D. Yes, it is. The point of view is Fuger's Ich-form retrospective.
2E. Yes, it is an autobiographical writing.
2F. "You" help the dialog. It is a second person pronoun
2G. The naratology alternates between "she" and "you" because in the first part of the text, the narator talks about Sally using third person, while in the end of the writing, the narator is talking to her.

Mariana Oros · Diver Data inscrierii: 14/Dec/2015 Mesaje: 54

2A.The actual author is Sandra Cisneros and I imagine her like a beautiful women with a shine hair.
2B. I think that the author thinks to the implied reader as being a girl, a student, professor, or a person who is interested in another kind of religion.
2C. I think the narrator is a girl, between 12-15 years, who probably is poor because her family does not have many material conditions to by a shoes, nylons and also she has a family very strict with her many restrictions.
2D. Yes it is, because the 1st person appears(,,I like your black coat and those shoes you wear...”) and also there are verbs in the 1st person(like, want, am going) the point of view is Fuger”s Ich-form retrospective(Narrator is internal, personal and his knowledge are superior).
2E. Yes it is on autobiographical writing because the narrator is the character who talks about his life(,,And one day, when my mother”s in a good mood, maybe after my next birthday...”).
2F. The ”you” represents the 2nd person pronoun and it is using to show as that is a conversation between two characters.
2G. The author alternates between ”she” and ”you” are because in the part of text the narrator describe Sally using ”she” and in the next part of text, the narrator has a conversation with Sally.
(I am Stefanca Marisca Maria)

Mariana Oros · Diver Data inscrierii: 14/Dec/2015 Mesaje: 54

2A. The actual author of this text is Sandra Cisneros. I imagine her as small women with a warm smile, with small negru eyes surrounded by two round windows, eyes that hide many stories about life and with a shawl that let you see her hair almost grey.

2B. The implied reader intended by the author can be a teenager, a student, a professor or anyone who wants to know about a different religion which involve many rules and a lot of strictness.

2C. I think the narrator is a girl, between 11-15 years, who probably comes from a family very strict in what concerns clothing or other things that are not in accordance with their religion ( "They are very strict in his religion. They are not supposed to dance.", "My mother says to wear black so young is dangerous" ).

2D. Yes, the narrator is also a character in the story because the 1st person appears and also verbs in the 1st person such as "I like your black coat" , " I want to buy shoes" , " I'm going to ask " and the point of view used is Fugerâ€s Ich-form retrospective (Narrator is internal, personal and his knowledge are superior).

2E. Yes, it is an autobiographical writing because the narrator is the character who talks about his life and about some important moments for him ("And one day, when my mother's in a good mood, maybe after my next birthday...").

2F. The "you" represents the 2nd person pronoun and it is using to show us that is a conversation between two characters, in our case, it is a conversation between the narrator and Sally.

2G. There is he author alternate between "she" and "you" because in the first part of the text the narrator describe Sally using "she" and in the last part of the text, the narrator has a conversation with Sally and now he is using "you".

Mariana Oros

Ciobanu.Roxana15 · Trimis: 18/01/2016 19:09 Titlul subiectului: Ciobanu Ioana Roxana

2A - The actual author is Sandra Cisneros. I poză her like a very beautiful women with eyes like a shine who wear negru but this colour is in opposite with her carachter.
2B - I think that the author thinks to the implied reader as being a young girl or a teenager.
2C - I think the narrator is a young girl without material conditions to buy clothes, shoes and any other things, who think that she is ugly and who search beautiness in other persons (,, but i want to buy shoes just like yours, like your black ones made of suede, just like those " )
2D - Yes, it is because it appears the 1st person (,,I like your.. "), verbs at 1st person (like , want ) and the point of view is Fuger's Ich -form retrospective ( internal narrator, personal with superior knowledge )
2E - Yes, because the narrator talks about his life and some memorable moments of this.
2F - That ,, you shows that the conversation is between two characters, in this text is between Sally and the Narator.
2G - The author alternates, ,you" and ,,she " because in the 1st instance the narator describes Sally and the second instance, the narator has a conversation with Sally.

Butean Dana · Trimis: 18/01/2016 23:17 Titlul subiectului:

2A. The actual author is Sandra Cisneros. The implied author is a young women, beautiful, blonde, green eyes and with a shine hair.
2B. The implied reader by the author can be a student, a professor who likes make-up.
2C.The Narrator I think is a young girl, a student and his family have a good financial situation "And one day, when my mother's in a good mood, maybe after my next birthday, I'm going to ask to buy the nylons too.". Probably, she has 17-18 years.
2D. Yes it is, because the 1st person appears,,I like your negru coat and those shoes you wear...” and the pointof view used is Ich-form retrospective. The Narrator is internal, superior and personal.
2E. Yes, it is an autobiographical writing because the Narrator talk about his life a very important moment ",,And one day, when my mother”s in a good mood, maybe after my next birthday...”.
2F. The "You" represents the second person pronoun and represents a conversation between two characters.
2G. The author used "she" because talks about this girl, Sally and describe her. The author use "you" because it is a dialog (Sally and Narrator).

caiadiana · Dunker Data inscrierii: 04/Noi/2015 Mesaje: 12

2A. The actual author is Sandra Cisneros. I imagine the implied author as a tall woman, staying in a library and writing.
2B. I think that the author thinks to the implied reader as being a girl.
2C. I think she is a poor girl, whose parents are very strict.
2D. Yes, it is. The point of view is Fuger's Ich-form retrospective.
2E. Yes, it is an autobiographical writing.
2F. "You" help the dialog. It is a second person speech.
2G. The naratology alternates between "she" and "you" because in the first part of the text, the narator talks about Sally using third person, while in the second part, the narator is talking to her.

Butean Dana · Trimis: 19/01/2016 18:08 Titlul subiectului:

2.A Actual author: Sandra Cisneros. The implied author can be a woman, or maybe a girl, beautiful, blue eyes.
2.B I think that the author made this text for younge people, and most probably for girls.
2.C I think that is a femele, probably is very young, she is having not a good material condition.
2.D Ich-form retrospective - Wilhelm Fuger, and yes, she is a character of the story.
2.E Yes, it is("I'm going to ask...; And one day, when my mother's...")
2.F "You" represent the presence of the 2nd person.
2.G At the begining he talks about Sally, and then the author have a conversation with her.

(Ilies Aadriana Iulia)

Teacher · Administrator Data inscrierii: 26/Mar/2008 Mesaje: 471

2A.
Sandra Cisneros, right.
For the second part, of course you are free to imagine Cisneros as you wish, but I'd expect you to guess she's Hispanic and not to fotografie her as a Viking beauty!

___ Iuliana: Cisneros sounds Spanish, right? So tall, blonde, green-eyed is not really one's typical image of a Hispanic writer... ++
___Sorina: red hair is a bit Irish, isn't it? ++
___ Ana Maria: Now that's what I call Hispanic looks! +++++
___ Marisca: you mean "shiny hair", right? +++
___ Mariana: makes sense... ++++
___ Roxana: "woman" not "women" (plural!). "Like a shine" - nonsense. Quite neurotic portrait. +++
___Dana: So, she's a Norwegian? ++
___Diana: Yep, you did not take any chances with this neutral answer... +++
___Adriana I: Another Viking... ++

2B. Primarily a teenage female audience.

__ Iuliana: yes. ++++
___Sorina: ++++
___AnaMaria: +++
___ Marisca: Why religion? +++
___ Mariana: Clearer than above (You two worked these together?) ++++
___ Roxana: ++++
___ Dana: +++
___ Diana: +
___ Adriana: ++

2C. Female, young (16-17), poor.

__ Iuliana: +++
___Sorina: Very well, with good quotation. +++++
___AnaMaria: Good point about the makeup. ++++
___ Marisca: (Error: to by her shoes ==> to buy...) Good points. ++++
___ Mariana: Even better than above. +++++
___ Roxana: ++++ (Error: who thinkS)
___ Dana: Since when buying a pair of nylon dresuri is a sign of a good financial situation?? +
___ Diana: +++
___ Adriana: ++ +

2D. Narrator = a character.
Fuger, Stanzel, Genette...

___Iuliana: +++
___Sorina: ++ (unclear which narratologist you use).
___AnaMaria: + , Ich-form is irrelevant in this context, and is has NO relation to the narrator's identity or non-identity with the character.
___ Marisca: +. All the wrong arguments. Ich-form and internal narrator are NOT the same thing!
___ Mariana: + The same as for Marisca.
___ Roxana: + Same as above.
___ Dana: + The same error as above.
___ Diana: +, The same error. It was contagious. wasn't it?
___ Adriana: + As above.

2E. Whereas the text sounds like an autobiography, in fact it is not directly, as its protagonists is called Esperanza (versus Sandra...). But this detail does not appear in this context, so the right answer would be a cautious one: I cannot say, as we do not have enought details and arguments.

__ Iuliana: ...or it just looks like one. +
___Sorina: (you mean her life, not his, right?). The decisive argument is not the person, but the identity of name Author = Narrator. +
___AnaMaria: The same objections. +
___ Marisca: (his instead of her!) The same objections. +
___ Mariana: (his instead of her!) The same objections. +
___ Roxana: (his instead of her!) The same objections. +
___ Dana: (his instead of her!) The same objections. +
___ Diana: Just like this? No arguments? +
___ Adriana: +

2F. You = Narratee (a character that listens to the Narrator's tale).

___Iuliana: YOU cannot possibly "represent a conversation".. --
___Sorina: "another character" called...? +
___AnaMaria: Banal, elementary. --
___ Marisca: Obvious, but irrelevant. --
___ Mariana: ... and that Sally is...? +
___ Roxana: OK, but who the heck is Sally? +
___ Dana: same as for Iuliana above.
___ Diana: Obvious, but irrelevant. --
___ Adriana: Obvious, but irrelevant. --

All in all: disappointing. You failed to identify the most banal Narratee!

2G. Variation of perspective. When Sally is called YOU, she is a Narratee. When she is called SHE, she is just a character. Possible explanation: the author changes the perspective, because she tries desperately to reconnect with her past (and Sally), but at the same time she recognizes that this is no logner possible, that Sally can no longer be her interlocutor (they got estranged, or she moved out...).

___Iulia, Sorina, Cupsa, Marisca, Mariana, Roxana, Dana, Diana, Adriana. Basically you all give a descriptive of the situation. You are near... but fail to use the right narratological terms. +

]TOTAL points here (max is 39):
___Iulia: 15
___Sorina: 15
___AnaMaria: 15
___Marisca: 13
___Mariana: 16
___Roxana: 14
___Dana: 9
___Diana: 10
___Adriana: 10

Violeta Danci · Dunker Data inscrierii: 25/Oct/2015 Mesaje: 14

2A. The actual author is Sandra Cisneros and I imagine her like a middle-age person with long negru hair, with a black dress, standing under a tree, in front of a lake and writting.
2B. I think that the author images the implied reader as a Sally”s age girl, who stands in the schoolyard and reads this story to her friends.
2C. I say that the N is a female, age 34, with a modest situation, who still has child”s soul.
2D. Yes, the N is a C. In ich-form retrospective (Wilhem Fuger).
2E. Yes, it is because the N is a C in this story and talks about some events from his life.
2F. Using ”You”, the N shows us that it is about a direct speech between two Cs.
2G. The author alternate between ”she” and ”you” because at the beginning, he describes how is she, Sally and after which he has a conversation with this C.

Teacher · Administrator Data inscrierii: 26/Mar/2008 Mesaje: 471

Quick points for Ms Danci. For explanations read my post above.

2A ++++
2B +++
2C (why exactly 34?) ++++ (I liked the mention about a "child's soul")
2D. Same confusion as your colleagues. +
2E. No enough clues to say that. +
2F. ??? --
2G. Same as everyone +

Total: 14 p.

And, Ms Violeta, since you are online, please annopunce your colleagues that I am writing these answers right now, so that they might come and read my observations and appraisals. Thanks!